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shauna
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Joined: Sep 15, 2010
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:51 am Reply with quote Back to top

How to teach driving skills to teens to prevent subsequent accidents as you guys know that teens are more prone to accidents...please help???
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lourdes
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Joined: Sep 21, 2010
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:06 am Reply with quote Back to top

Choose a driver's ed school that works with you. Driving is a skill that doesn't allow for very many mistakes. Don't take shortcuts getting your teen the best training you can arrange.
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Misha
Site Owner



Joined: Aug 02, 2006
Posts: 705
Location: McLean, VA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:55 am Reply with quote Back to top

Well, accident prevention is not about driving skills, it is rather about sound risk analysis - which generally comes with maturity. So try to steer them towards this area, for the best results. Though it is inevitable that they still will have much higher accident rate, just because they are teens...
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Astraist
Master Driver



Joined: Mar 27, 2010
Posts: 209

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Misha, habits and mental approaches are intwined. I found out, for instance, that if a driver sets his mirrors very tightly -- and the side mirrors are also made to show what is directly behind -- the driver tends to neglect his interior mirror, and vice versa. When the driver's seating position is set properly, he will be more inclined to use both hands. When the hands are at 9 and 3 he will be more inclined to use the blinkers, etc... Vice versa, A thinking and aware driver will seek to refine his knowledge and his driving skills.

For teaching teens, I suggest the following:
- Explain that driving is not really "easy".
- Explain this and everything, not just from a point of view of safety alone, at least not at the beginning. Don't try to intimidate the students, just get them to think about driving in a new way. Make them "better" drivers. Safer will only be a by-product of this. Use a race driver as an example helps.
- Talk about responsibility, patience, courtesy, knowledge.
- When you start, first get them toghether and overview the whole ordeal to get it sorted in their heads. Than, explain each topic first by theory, than (if it relates to driving skills) by letting them perform it naturally and than pointing out their mistakes. Than demonstrate what to do in the car, and than practice it with them.
- Do a summary and give them "trials", personal aspects of driving to work on.

Now, in detail:

On a more practical note, one main thing should be stressed: That driving is not and was never meant to be an easy task. You cannot go into the car, put your mind into "autopilot" untill "landing" at the destination. You need to recognise driving as a chore and define it as your main task. Avoid presenting it as a kind of intimidation, just get them to think about driving in another way.

Explaining this not only from a point of safety (which linkes to being cowerdly amongst some risk-loving teens), but as simply becoming a better driver all-around, might make teens more co-operative, especially once they realize, as an example, that focusing on driving is not so hard, or that being positioned upright in the driver's seat does not mean sitting glued to the wheel like their grandmother, etc. You need to remove prejudguce from safe driving as being nerdly, fearfull or exhausting.

Using the illustration of the race car driver might help. Most advanced driving techniques are based on race driving styles. Plus, once a teen understands that a competing world rally driver actually enters corners very slowely and on the brake pedal, he will more easily subdue to those instructions.

Another way of making the student listen, is to use a "negative example". You perform a certain in-car drill (best preceded by some theoretical explaination) and let him do it naturally. After doing it, you explain to him what he did wrong and why. It might be something very dramatic that he notices himself (like running over a cone at a braking drill) or something that he does not notice untill you show him.

The negative example creates a certain "shock". The teen, who would otherwise refuse to listen because he thinks he knows how to drive, will now understand that he does not. Furthermore, It's humane to dislike mistakes. Therefore, if you intentionally get someone to perform a mistake, and than point out the magnitude of his mistake, he will assimiliate and remember very carefully what to do in order to avoid that mistake from re-occuring. After the negative example, an instructor's demonstration is also very effective.

Like Misha said, there are some important "mental approaches" to teach: Talk about responsibility. Ask them if they believe they can be in an accident due to mere misfortune or is it up to them only. Ask them if, upon having a certain accident or a driving mistake, would they blame someone, or themselves even -- or whether they would take a lesson from it. Ask them if they seek to get "better" or just stay "good".

Use imagination, as it is a powerfull tool. Get them to imagine what they really want their driving to be like. Get them to imagine it fully, from all angles, in all situations and including all aspects of sound, feel, looks, thoughts, etc...Ask them for "references" that suddenly pop into mind. Ask them also to describe their current state of driving and perform a comparison of all elements of driving, on a scale of 1 to 10.

Other treats to talk about are patience and courtesy, but it's important to move quickely to driving habits, which should be explained simply. People like simple stuff that they could either understand easily, or already know. They do not like, or cannot listen for long, to heavy "pro-talk" or to "mental mambo-jambo".

During the frontal explainations, first explain the whole ordeal: What you are going to do and cover, in sequence. This helps build a "cognitive map", which the mental equivalent of the difference between a pile of books and a library. In retroaction, the student can "pull out" a certain part of the instruction specifically.

As for actual driving habits, I suggest the following:
- Checking the car mechanically, with a stress on tires and tire air pressure. Instead of just saying how dangerous it is to drive with under-inflated tires, explain first that there is no good reason to drive with under-inflation, because it limits the overall performance of the car, and the few moments spared from not visiting the station, are lost in drivng on the road.

A good example here is to push two pieces of papers from both sides of the tire. The little space left between them, large as a size 9 shoe, is the only piece of rubber the car sits on!

- Setting a seating position: Should also include mirror setup and hand positioning on the wheel. Teach them such a position would also -- after adjusting themselves to it -- prove most comfortable on a long ride and would give you good car control. Again, a negative illustration can help. Show the student, for an example, how much more carefully aligned mirrors can capture by placing a vehicle just in the blind-spot and than opening up the mirror to shockingly discover a hidden car/bike.

Try and yank the wheel from them when they grip the wheel in various hand positions and with one or two hands. They will soon see how good they can ressist when holding the wheel at 9 and 3. Show them how seating too leaned back or too far, makes them lean forward to the wheel, and how this is uncomfortable and can cause your body to dangle about when you try to steer.

- Get them to open their eyes and look to the far distance, searching for the hazards at the distance. Tell them that anything on the road that might cause you to change your position or your speed is considered as a HAZARD. Show how this makes driving, especially at speed, easier.

- Tell them about the "red alert". Whenever their margin of safety around the vehicle is compromised, or when they are distracted from driving, tell them to mentally "turn on" an imaginary "red alert" untill the hazard/distraction is over.

- Tell that when something bad happens, they should pound the brake pedal to the floor with no fear. Here a negative illustration is very effective because people tend to brake far too softly. It should actually be a kicking motion, which is very unnatural. Try and simulate a situation of surprise by surprising the student with the order to brake. You tell him in a calm voice to "move along" or something like that, and than suddenly at once you shout "BRAKE!" and than rapidly and very quickely untill the car comes to holt "brake,brake,brake,brake,brake". When you first order to brake, add a visual effect by clapping your hands against one another or against the dash.

A comparion between braking distances in 50km/h to 70km/h, or with normally inflated and half-inflated tires, can be very good as a summary drill. If you reach a situation where it all "adds up" and "connects" you get the real attention of the student. You can relate to looking up or using the red alert by saying would be the ones to prevent the surprise from occuring, and also mention that with a bad posture in the driver's seat, the driver would not manage to brake as hard and as quickely.
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myownworld
Site Admin
Site Admin



Joined: Jan 06, 2010
Posts: 485

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:51 am Reply with quote Back to top

Excellent advice as always Astraist... and great attitude towards driving! You have such a gift for explaining things - everyone can benefit from your posts! I for one have learnt so much already! Smile
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kobyclements
New member



Joined: Nov 17, 2010
Posts: 1
Location: STANFORD MERTHYR, NSW 2327

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:22 am Reply with quote Back to top

It' good to select just right school. those who are proficient in driving lessons for teen and others.....i can let u know if u need good resource for school.
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kyunnie
New member



Joined: Feb 07, 2011
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:48 am Reply with quote Back to top

Teens driverís chances of crashing increase with each additional teen passenger. Parents need to make sure they know who is driving with their teen at all times. Driving can be a risky activity for teens and warrants professional instruction. It is essential for parents to find a driving school with current curricula and professionally trained instructors. Supervised driving sessions with parents can provide teens with opportunities to enhance learning, reinforce proper driving techniques and skills, and receive constructive feedback from the people who care most about their safety. *link snipped*
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ellaboswell
Member
Member



Joined: Apr 29, 2011
Posts: 44
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:10 am Reply with quote Back to top

According to me Teen drivers generally tend to be irresponsible and easily distracted, thus resulting in them making wrong moves. Many teen drivers have been seen talking on the phone or texting when driving. These tendencies have led to an enormous number of accidents, causing injuries, fatalities and skyrocketing insurance rates.

Some major causes for distractions while driving:

* Drinking & Eating
* Emotional State of the Driver
* Using the Cell Phone
* Talking to Friend/ Friends in the Car
* Listening to Music
As a new driver, you will be unskilled at handling unexpected problems. So, make sure you attend any of the various defensive driving courses across the country.
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myownworld
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Joined: Jan 06, 2010
Posts: 485

PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:49 am Reply with quote Back to top

Welcome to Fun And Safe Driving ellaboswell. Thank you for joining the site.

Those are definitely some of the major causes for accidents. Unfortunately, teenagers are often prone to ignoring sensible advice!
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GerardWon
Master Racer



Joined: May 10, 2011
Posts: 46
Location: NYC Area

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:15 am Reply with quote Back to top

Astraist wrote:
Misha, habits and mental approaches are intwined. I found out, for instance, that if a driver sets his mirrors very tightly -- and the side mirrors are also made to show what is directly behind -- the driver tends to neglect his interior mirror, and vice versa. When the driver's seating position is set properly, he will be more inclined to use both hands. When the hands are at 9 and 3 he will be more inclined to use the blinkers, etc... Vice versa, A thinking and aware driver will seek to refine his knowledge and his driving skills.

For teaching teens, I suggest the following:
- Explain that driving is not really "easy".
- Explain this and everything, not just from a point of view of safety alone, at least not at the beginning. Don't try to intimidate the students, just get them to think about driving in a new way. Make them "better" drivers. Safer will only be a by-product of this. Use a race driver as an example helps.
- Talk about responsibility, patience, courtesy, knowledge.
- When you start, first get them toghether and overview the whole ordeal to get it sorted in their heads. Than, explain each topic first by theory, than (if it relates to driving skills) by letting them perform it naturally and than pointing out their mistakes. Than demonstrate what to do in the car, and than practice it with them.
- Do a summary and give them "trials", personal aspects of driving to work on.

Now, in detail:

On a more practical note, one main thing should be stressed: That driving is not and was never meant to be an easy task. You cannot go into the car, put your mind into "autopilot" untill "landing" at the destination. You need to recognise driving as a chore and define it as your main task. Avoid presenting it as a kind of intimidation, just get them to think about driving in another way.

Explaining this not only from a point of safety (which linkes to being cowerdly amongst some risk-loving teens), but as simply becoming a better driver all-around, might make teens more co-operative, especially once they realize, as an example, that focusing on driving is not so hard, or that being positioned upright in the driver's seat does not mean sitting glued to the wheel like their grandmother, etc. You need to remove prejudguce from safe driving as being nerdly, fearfull or exhausting.

Using the illustration of the race car driver might help. Most advanced driving techniques are based on race driving styles. Plus, once a teen understands that a competing world rally driver actually enters corners very slowely and on the brake pedal, he will more easily subdue to those instructions.

Another way of making the student listen, is to use a "negative example". You perform a certain in-car drill (best preceded by some theoretical explaination) and let him do it naturally. After doing it, you explain to him what he did wrong and why. It might be something very dramatic that he notices himself (like running over a cone at a braking drill) or something that he does not notice untill you show him.

The negative example creates a certain "shock". The teen, who would otherwise refuse to listen because he thinks he knows how to drive, will now understand that he does not. Furthermore, It's humane to dislike mistakes. Therefore, if you intentionally get someone to perform a mistake, and than point out the magnitude of his mistake, he will assimiliate and remember very carefully what to do in order to avoid that mistake from re-occuring. After the negative example, an instructor's demonstration is also very effective.

Like Misha said, there are some important "mental approaches" to teach: Talk about responsibility. Ask them if they believe they can be in an accident due to mere misfortune or is it up to them only. Ask them if, upon having a certain accident or a driving mistake, would they blame someone, or themselves even -- or whether they would take a lesson from it. Ask them if they seek to get "better" or just stay "good".

Use imagination, as it is a powerfull tool. Get them to imagine what they really want their driving to be like. Get them to imagine it fully, from all angles, in all situations and including all aspects of sound, feel, looks, thoughts, etc...Ask them for "references" that suddenly pop into mind. Ask them also to describe their current state of driving and perform a comparison of all elements of driving, on a scale of 1 to 10.

Other treats to talk about are patience and courtesy, but it's important to move quickely to driving habits, which should be explained simply. People like simple stuff that they could either understand easily, or already know. They do not like, or cannot listen for long, to heavy "pro-talk" or to "mental mambo-jambo".

During the frontal explainations, first explain the whole ordeal: What you are going to do and cover, in sequence. This helps build a "cognitive map", which the mental equivalent of the difference between a pile of books and a library. In retroaction, the student can "pull out" a certain part of the instruction specifically.

As for actual driving habits, I suggest the following:
- Checking the car mechanically, with a stress on tires and tire air pressure. Instead of just saying how dangerous it is to drive with under-inflated tires, explain first that there is no good reason to drive with under-inflation, because it limits the overall performance of the car, and the few moments spared from not visiting the station, are lost in drivng on the road.

A good example here is to push two pieces of papers from both sides of the tire. The little space left between them, large as a size 9 shoe, is the only piece of rubber the car sits on!

- Setting a seating position: Should also include mirror setup and hand positioning on the wheel. Teach them such a position would also -- after adjusting themselves to it -- prove most comfortable on a long ride and would give you good car control. Again, a negative illustration can help. Show the student, for an example, how much more carefully aligned mirrors can capture by placing a vehicle just in the blind-spot and than opening up the mirror to shockingly discover a hidden car/bike.

Try and yank the wheel from them when they grip the wheel in various hand positions and with one or two hands. They will soon see how good they can ressist when holding the wheel at 9 and 3. Show them how seating too leaned back or too far, makes them lean forward to the wheel, and how this is uncomfortable and can cause your body to dangle about when you try to steer.

- Get them to open their eyes and look to the far distance, searching for the hazards at the distance. Tell them that anything on the road that might cause you to change your position or your speed is considered as a HAZARD. Show how this makes driving, especially at speed, easier.

- Tell them about the "red alert". Whenever their margin of safety around the vehicle is compromised, or when they are distracted from driving, tell them to mentally "turn on" an imaginary "red alert" untill the hazard/distraction is over.

- Tell that when something bad happens, they should pound the brake pedal to the floor with no fear. Here a negative illustration is very effective because people tend to brake far too softly. It should actually be a kicking motion, which is very unnatural. Try and simulate a situation of surprise by surprising the student with the order to brake. You tell him in a calm voice to "move along" or something like that, and than suddenly at once you shout "BRAKE!" and than rapidly and very quickely untill the car comes to holt "brake,brake,brake,brake,brake". When you first order to brake, add a visual effect by clapping your hands against one another or against the dash.

A comparion between braking distances in 50km/h to 70km/h, or with normally inflated and half-inflated tires, can be very good as a summary drill. If you reach a situation where it all "adds up" and "connects" you get the real attention of the student. You can relate to looking up or using the red alert by saying would be the ones to prevent the surprise from occuring, and also mention that with a bad posture in the driver's seat, the driver would not manage to brake as hard and as quickely.


I hate to butt in on my first post but some of your advice is Bad and Not technicaly correct. I'll just deal with your two most glaring errors.

1) The Safest way for a novice to enter any corner is to do All of your braking in a straight line and then get back onto the throttle to maintain that Slower speed Before turning into the corner. If you turn in under braking and then release the brake it's as if you have Lost grip from the rear tires ( this isn't really what happens But the car can behave like it has lost grip at the rear), that in slippery condions (or if executed aggresively in the dry) the car can easily start to spin out -- that is to say it will rotate from the rear. Which is why rally drivers and us open wheel racers do this in slower corners -- we want the car to rotate: then we stop that rotation by getting back on the throttle.

This turning in under hard braking is a very advanced techjnique and takes lots of track time to perfect -- it is Not something to learn on the street.

2) Yes most people brake way too softly in a panic situation. Take the kid to a parking lot let him get up to about 30 MPH and in a straight line let him try to lock the brakes ( or engage the ABS) Then let him repeat until he gets to the point of threshold braking -- slowing as quickly as possible Without engaging the ABS. ABS on most street cars will Not produce the shortest stopping distance. Also if in a panic situation your first instict is to just slam on the brakes Then you virtully lose All ability to steer the car. The front tires are too loaded and have no grip left to steer.


Last edited by GerardWon on Thu May 12, 2011 5:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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myownworld
Site Admin
Site Admin



Joined: Jan 06, 2010
Posts: 485

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:49 am Reply with quote Back to top

Welcome to Fun and Safe Driving GerardWon. Nice to meet you and feel free to join in the discussion. We're all here to learn... Smile
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GerardWon
Master Racer



Joined: May 10, 2011
Posts: 46
Location: NYC Area

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

myownworld wrote:
Welcome to Fun and Safe Driving GerardWon. Nice to meet you and feel free to join in the discussion. We're all here to learn... Smile


Thank you very much! Very Happy

Yes I look forward to learning more about driving. No one knows everything.
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Astraist
Master Driver



Joined: Mar 27, 2010
Posts: 209

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 4:42 am Reply with quote Back to top

GerardWon wrote:

I hate to butt in on my first post but some of your advice is Bad and Not technicaly correct. I'll just deal with your two most glaring errors.


It's okay. Disagreements are natural, and we will all learn from them. No hard feeling. I actually like having another guy from the track who I can speak to about "technical" stuff.

GerardWon wrote:

1) The Safest way for a novice to enter any corner is to do All of your braking in a straight line and then get back onto the throttle to maintain that Slower speed Before turning into the corner. If you turn in under braking and then release the brake it's as if you have Lost grip from the rear tires ( this isn't really what happens But the car can behave like it has lost grip at the rear), that in slippery condions (or if executed aggresively in the dry) the car can easily start to spin out -- that is to say it will rotate from the rear. Which is why rally drivers and us open wheel racers do this in slower corners -- we want the car to rotate: then we stop that rotation by getting back on the throttle.

This turning in under hard braking is a very advanced techjnique and takes lots of track time to perfect -- it is Not something to learn on the street.


The technique you imply is legitimate, but it relies on what is now considered the "old school" of track racing; a school of thought that, it is now believed, had put too much of a stress on smoothness and on avoiding weight transfers. You probably know that nowadays, students in very basic track days learn how to trail brake rather than brake in a straight line. The same "reform" has made it's way into the street, where you drive well withing the car's limits in any case.

The laws of physics (Newton's first law, to be exact), states that the moving object (car) will want to continue in it's original path (forward) thus understeering. The natural handing characteristic of a car, any car, is not to kick it's rear wheels around the corner but rather to slide it's front straight out of it. At turn-in, where you start turning the wheel into the corner, the car is said to be in a transient, it is changing direction. During the change of direction it is always understeering. You can only get the back of the car to slide after you finished turning the wheel into the corner, and at that point you should be on the throttle.

By braking lightly into the corner, a weight transfer to the front is going to increase front grip and help to rotate the car about it's center of gravity and reduce the natural understeer tendencies. After the steering motion have been completed, you smoothly transition onto the throttle to keep the car steady on power, and accelerate slightly coming out of the corner. This does not relate to fast corners, where there isn't much rotation taken place to begin with and no driver brakes in such turns anyhow.

The reason I teach this technique (and was taught to apply it) is that it works with the instincts of the driver rather than against them. Take a teen for his first drive in a car. Have him make a turn, which pedal would he/she press? The brakes. Instead of working against the nature and trying to "break the myth," I try to refine their natural skills. This is also the technique as it was instructed in every advanced driving (and track driving) course I've been to in Europe.

GerardWon wrote:

2) Yes most people brake way too softly in a panic situation. Take the kid to a parking lot let him get up to about 30 MPH and in a straight line let him try to lock the brakes ( or engage the ABS) Then let him repeat until he gets to the point of threshold braking -- slowing as quickly as possible Without engaging the ABS. ABS on most street cars will Not produce the shortest stopping distance. Also if in a panic situation your first instict is to just slam on the brakes Then you virtully lose All ability to steer the car. The front tires are too loaded and have no grip left to steer.


Threshold braking is not a method of emergency braking. It is a method of performance braking. It is used to achieve the maximum possible force of deceleration, for an anticipated situation (braking for a corner on the track), on typicaly consistent grip levels and with lesser safety concrens (due to the usual presence of safety procuations and run off areas). Emergency braking is made assuming a greatly unexpected situation. I have raced quite a bit in my country in Turkey and France, but I don't believe that I could apply threshold braking in an emergency, and I would rely on the ABS.

In a car with ABS, it's best to let the ABS do all the work. In a car without ABS, th technique depends on the driver's level of competence. For the average road driver, and I know this goes against everything a track driver is used to, it's best to brake hard and lock up all four wheels. When unskilled drivers (and it will take a lot more than one-day's worth of defensive driving training) try to perform any sort of sophisticated braking technique, they usually miss and increase the stopping distances dramatically relative to locked wheels.

With slightly more skilled drivers, I find it possible practice an imitation of threshold braking through a technique which we call "Regressive braking." You first brake hard to the full lock up of the wheels, and than you start easing off the pressure in search of the point of threshold. It's not too hard to achieve but it's beyond the ability of the average driver. Braking too hard is so much better than braking too soft.

With ABS, the ability to steer is maintained, albeit crippled. Without ABS, it takes a momentary reduction of braking force (if you lock up the wheels) to allow for steering to take place. In any way the proper thing the do is to brake first, and steer later.
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GerardWon
Master Racer



Joined: May 10, 2011
Posts: 46
Location: NYC Area

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 5:50 am Reply with quote Back to top

Astraist wrote:
GerardWon wrote:

I hate to butt in on my first post but some of your advice is Bad and Not technicaly correct. I'll just deal with your two most glaring errors.


It's okay. Disagreements are natural, and we will all learn from them. No hard feeling. I actually like having another guy from the track who I can speak to about "technical" stuff.

--> GerardWon wrote: Hit me up skype -- gerardwon

GerardWon wrote:

1) The Safest way for a novice to enter any corner is to do All of your braking in a straight line and then get back onto the throttle to maintain that Slower speed Before turning into the corner. If you turn in under braking and then release the brake it's as if you have Lost grip from the rear tires ( this isn't really what happens But the car can behave like it has lost grip at the rear), that in slippery condions (or if executed aggresively in the dry) the car can easily start to spin out -- that is to say it will rotate from the rear. Which is why rally drivers and us open wheel racers do this in slower corners -- we want the car to rotate: then we stop that rotation by getting back on the throttle.

This turning in under hard braking is a very advanced techjnique and takes lots of track time to perfect -- it is Not something to learn on the street.


The technique you imply is legitimate, but it relies on what is now considered the "old school" of track racing; a school of thought that, it is now believed, had put too much of a stress on smoothness and on avoiding weight transfers. You probably know that nowadays, students in very basic track days learn how to trail brake rather than brake in a straight line. The same "reform" has made it's way into the street, where you drive well withing the car's limits in any case.

The laws of physics (Newton's first law, to be exact), states that the moving object (car) will want to continue in it's original path (forward) thus understeering. The natural handing characteristic of a car, any car, is not to kick it's rear wheels around the corner but rather to slide it's front straight out of it. At turn-in, where you start turning the wheel into the corner, the car is said to be in a transient, it is changing direction. During the change of direction it is always understeering. You can only get the back of the car to slide after you finished turning the wheel into the corner, and at that point you should be on the throttle.

By braking lightly into the corner, a weight transfer to the front is going to increase front grip and help to rotate the car about it's center of gravity and reduce the natural understeer tendencies. After the steering motion have been completed, you smoothly transition onto the throttle to keep the car steady on power, and accelerate slightly coming out of the corner. This does not relate to fast corners, where there isn't much rotation taken place to begin with and no driver brakes in such turns anyhow.

The reason I teach this technique (and was taught to apply it) is that it works with the instincts of the driver rather than against them. Take a teen for his first drive in a car. Have him make a turn, which pedal would he/she press? The brakes. Instead of working against the nature and trying to "break the myth," I try to refine their natural skills. This is also the technique as it was instructed in every advanced driving (and track driving) course I've been to in Europe.

--> GerardWon wrote: I trail brake all the time -- well a lot of the the time. I also left foot brake all of the time-- but you know guys like us ( I've been to soo many racing schools In US and Canada, advanced racing schools, lapping days, wet skid pad training, had a sports pyschologist, FF races etc.) are in the Vast minority of drivers.

However, as you know, it takes practice and timing to execute perfectly in all weather conditions. Also every car reacts differently to this method, not to mention how tire pressure, speed all factor in. Yeah straight line braking is old school But I stand by my statement it is the safest way to enter any corner, in any car in Almost every type of weather ( wet smooth ice can be Very tricky).

GerardWon wrote:

2) Yes most people brake way too softly in a panic situation. Take the kid to a parking lot let him get up to about 30 MPH and in a straight line let him try to lock the brakes ( or engage the ABS) Then let him repeat until he gets to the point of threshold braking -- slowing as quickly as possible Without engaging the ABS. ABS on most street cars will Not produce the shortest stopping distance. Also if in a panic situation your first instict is to just slam on the brakes Then you virtully lose All ability to steer the car. The front tires are too loaded and have no grip left to steer.


Threshold braking is not a method of emergency braking. It is a method of performance braking. It is used to achieve the maximum possible force of deceleration, for an anticipated situation (braking for a corner on the track), on typicaly consistent grip levels and with lesser safety concrens (due to the usual presence of safety procuations and run off areas). Emergency braking is made assuming a greatly unexpected situation. I have raced quite a bit in my country in Turkey and France, but I don't believe that I could apply threshold braking in an emergency, and I would rely on the ABS.

In a car with ABS, it's best to let the ABS do all the work. In a car without ABS, th technique depends on the driver's level of competence. For the average road driver, and I know this goes against everything a track driver is used to, it's best to brake hard and lock up all four wheels. When unskilled drivers (and it will take a lot more than one-day's worth of defensive driving training) try to perform any sort of sophisticated braking technique, they usually miss and increase the stopping distances dramatically relative to locked wheels.

With slightly more skilled drivers, I find it possible practice an imitation of threshold braking through a technique which we call "Regressive braking." You first brake hard to the full lock up of the wheels, and than you start easing off the pressure in search of the point of threshold. It's not too hard to achieve but it's beyond the ability of the average driver. Braking too hard is so much better than braking too soft.

With ABS, the ability to steer is maintained, albeit crippled. Without ABS, it takes a momentary reduction of braking force (if you lock up the wheels) to allow for steering to take place. In any way the proper thing the do is to brake first, and steer later.


People look at me at me as if I have three heads when I tell them that one of the most dangerous aspects of open wheel racing is the drive to and from the race track. Shocked

I don't teach novice drivers. I do however feel it is best to let people know that when the car is under hard braking It can not also change direction -- well it is greatly hampered. I guess we have two different
perspectives.

Hey btw lets make sure we have the front tires pointed straight before we lock up those tires.!
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Astraist
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Joined: Mar 27, 2010
Posts: 209

PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:55 am Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, we have two different perspectives, also because some of my experience is off-track -- on rally stages, both tarmac and gravel. However, I believe that the difference is in the approach or mind set more than in the actual performance. It's like little differences of driving styles between two competitive drivers, that end up with the same results on the timer.

By the way, ice is always considered an "extremity." The whole driving technique changes when you drive on ice (and likewise on an epoxy skidpad that simulates ice). You need to avoid weight transfers and use the clutch when you slide.

I am under no way a great driver, but I know some very unique competitive drivers who are also masterful trainers. Here's one, Lior Levi. He raced in France in JMC racing (Jean Marie's team), and was the first none-German to win the ADAC scholarship. He is a great coach and here you can see his method of instructing and how he clearly teaches to trail brake, on the road.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ernvIRVbti0

I also agree that driving from and to the track is in times more dangerous than the track driving itself. That's why, along with teaching performance driving (which we do on public roads because we don't have a track in Israel), we teach advanced driving for improving the safety of normal drivers. We work on car control but also on facilitating anticipation (by looking further ahead, a known racing technique) and preaching for proper tire maintenance, proper driving position and certain ways of utilizing the steering and pedals.
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